Flat Earth and the Bible: flat earth and Bible

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Friday, 9 October 2015

People are turning to Christ From Studying the Flat Earth

By Bob Skiba

I highly recommend you look at Bob Skiba's flat earth videos on YouTube to learn more how the flat earth relates to the Bible.

People are all up in arms about this Flat Earth subject causing division and strife. OK. Please show me a few examples from Scripture where truth didn't cause some sort of uproar. LOL! Nearly every prophet in the Bible was MURDERED because they told the truth. Look at what happened to Yeshua and His disciples for simply telling the truth. Truth almost always causes trouble. Because most don't ever want to hear it. Now, I'm not saying that Flat Earth IS the truth. But as we are only on a quest to find out if it IS or not - testing ALL things just as the Scriptures say we should - the same nonsense is manifesting as what happens when you tell them that X-mess and Ishtar Day have NOTHING whatsoever to do with our Savior. They don't want to hear that they've been participating in lies most of their lives. This subject is generating similar responses. Only with this deal, it's ramped up several notches on the psychosis meter. So much so that the very mention of simply wanting to explore the POSSIBILITIES absolutely sends people through the roof with amazing expressions of substantial cognitive dissonance combined with healthy doses of accusation, ridicule, mocking and slander!

Now people are coming to my wall, sending me e-mails and posting comments on my YouTube channels saying stuff like, "How is this Flat Earth stuff leading anyone closer to the Lord? This is not important. The whole world is going to hell and you're talking about this??" while making all sorts of ridiculous accusations about how I should be out caring for the sick and reaching the lost and freaking out about ISIS and Jade Helm and all of the impending doom allegedly coming in September (like they are)... instead of having these Flat Earth discussions. The accusations are of course coming from people who are here throwing stones rather than actually doing what they are accusing me of not doing. Imagine the irony.

Beyond that, those of you lobbing accusations, you are exceptionally presumptuous. First of all, we care for the sick almost daily over here. Second, this latest subject is not the only thing our ministry talks about. We have many different subjects going out all over the world in print, DVD, on radio interviews, at conferences, etc.. We're quite busy with various forms of ministry. In fact, this past weekend, I spent nearly 25 hours working to help 4 individuals through some very serious life issues. What have you done lately besides swing that telephone pole that's sticking out of your face as you're looking to point out splinters in the eyes of others?

As far as this Flat Earth subject goes, I had one girl write to me a couple of weeks ago, telling me here on my Facebook wall that she got saved as a result of this discussion. Today, I received two more testimonies:

Michael Ohman wrote:

"Talking of people getting saved, the flat earth discussion led my friend to salvation. He was the type of person that would sooner believe we were spawned by aliens and some genetic experiment to then evolve into what we are. But he said that as he was looking into flat earth, it kept pointing him back to the Scriptures and a Creator. So he decided to finally give in (after much resisting) and do a little research on the Bible and such things. He has now accepted Yahshuah as his Savior and is studying the word to 'deprogram' what he's picked up over the years.

And believe me, I'd tried before to show Yahshuah and Yahweh to him to no avail. Who would've thought that flat earth would be what it took to show him the truth? His conversion is nothing short of a miracle, only the Holy Spirit can 'change' a man's heart so drastically. When I found out he accepted Yeshuah, I was literally jumping up and down because I saw the miracle.

Keep your chin up Rob, even if the enemy is swinging. Remember that the enemy will always destroy the good and what is making a difference for Yahweh's Kingdom. If it's any help, it was due to yours and Douglas Hamp's work that I was brought back into fellowship with our savior Yeshuah last year. And it was the flat-earth topic that led one of my die-hard atheist friends to Yeshuah. You and your family will be in my prayers. May Yahweh bless you Rob."

Anthony Cruz wrote:

"I have a praise report. There is a friend I have been witnessing and praying for years for him. He grew up with sra, Out of all the subjects on realities we talk about, this flat earth subject has got him in the Word, and I see him coming closer to Jesus. Please keep him in prayer. Whatever God chooses to use to bring people closer, who am I to argue."

A couple of days ago, Sheila and I had dinner over some friends house. While there, of course this discussion came up and the dialogue went on for nearly 4 hours. When it was over, my friend says to me, "This whole idea of an enclosed, Flat Earth makes me feel more special to God than I think anything I've ever heard." I have had several very similar testimonies come in from others here on Facebook in the past 2 weeks as a result of this topic.

Ashlee Ellegard Webster said,

"I personally know three non-believers that have given their life to YHWH over this very topic....huge huge blessing!"

Furthermore, I have received many responses such as this one from Will Reynolds:

"Rob Skiba, what you have been doing here really has me excited. I find myself digging into scripture with an excitement I haven't had in years. I too never thought I would be questioning the shape of our plane(t). Keep up the great work, it is opening my eyes and brings to mind: "Happy is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gains understanding" (Proverbs 3:13)"

And this one from Grace Pond:

"God has been ministering to me thru this FE thing on many deep levels as I go thru hell on earth in my life. It has been a healing part of my daily anguish. Don't judge what God can use to love on someone!"

Find more testimonals here.

Michael Ohman wrote:

"Talking of people getting saved, the flat earth discussion led my friend to salvation. He was the type of person that would sooner believe we were spawned by aliens and some genetic experiment to then evolve into what we are. But he said that as he was looking into flat earth, it kept pointing him back to the Scriptures and a Creator. So he decided to finally give in (after much resisting) and do a little research on the Bible and such things. He has now accepted Yahshuah as his Savior and is studying the word to 'deprogram' what he's picked up over the years.

And believe me, I'd tried before to show Yahshuah and Yahweh to him to no avail. Who would've thought that flat earth would be what it took to show him the truth? His conversion is nothing short of a miracle, only the Holy Spirit can 'change' a man's heart so drastically. When I found out he accepted Yeshuah, I was literally jumping up and down because I saw the miracle.

Keep your chin up Rob, even if the enemy is swinging. Remember that the enemy will always destroy the good and what is making a difference for Yahweh's Kingdom. If it's any help, it was due to yours and Douglas Hamp's work that I was brought back into fellowship with our savior Yeshuah last year. And it was the flat-earth topic that led one of my die-hard atheist friends to Yeshuah. You and your family will be in my prayers. May Yahweh bless you Rob."

Anthony Cruz wrote:

"I have a praise report. There is a friend I have been witnessing and praying for years for him. He grew up with sra, Out of all the subjects on realities we talk about, this flat earth subject has got him in the Word, and I see him coming closer to Jesus. Please keep him in prayer. Whatever God chooses to use to bring people closer, who am I to argue."

Ashlee Ellegard Webster said,

"I personally know three non-believers that have given their life to YHWH over this very topic....huge huge blessing!"

Furthermore, I have received many responses such as this one from Will Reynolds:

"Rob Skiba, what you have been doing here really has me excited. I find myself digging into scripture with an excitement I haven't had in years. I too never thought I would be questioning the shape of our plane(t). Keep up the great work, it is opening my eyes and brings to mind: "Happy is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gains understanding" (Proverbs 3:13)"

And this one from Grace Pond:

"God has been ministering to me thru this FE thing on many deep levels as I go thru hell on earth in my life. It has been a healing part of my daily anguish. Don't judge what God can use to love on someone!"

- See more at: http://testingtheglobe.com/testimonies.html#sthash.hVfU244r.dpuf

Michael Ohman wrote:

"Talking of people getting saved, the flat earth discussion led my friend to salvation. He was the type of person that would sooner believe we were spawned by aliens and some genetic experiment to then evolve into what we are. But he said that as he was looking into flat earth, it kept pointing him back to the Scriptures and a Creator. So he decided to finally give in (after much resisting) and do a little research on the Bible and such things. He has now accepted Yahshuah as his Savior and is studying the word to 'deprogram' what he's picked up over the years.

And believe me, I'd tried before to show Yahshuah and Yahweh to him to no avail. Who would've thought that flat earth would be what it took to show him the truth? His conversion is nothing short of a miracle, only the Holy Spirit can 'change' a man's heart so drastically. When I found out he accepted Yeshuah, I was literally jumping up and down because I saw the miracle.

Keep your chin up Rob, even if the enemy is swinging. Remember that the enemy will always destroy the good and what is making a difference for Yahweh's Kingdom. If it's any help, it was due to yours and Douglas Hamp's work that I was brought back into fellowship with our savior Yeshuah last year. And it was the flat-earth topic that led one of my die-hard atheist friends to Yeshuah. You and your family will be in my prayers. May Yahweh bless you Rob."

Anthony Cruz wrote:

"I have a praise report. There is a friend I have been witnessing and praying for years for him. He grew up with sra, Out of all the subjects on realities we talk about, this flat earth subject has got him in the Word, and I see him coming closer to Jesus. Please keep him in prayer. Whatever God chooses to use to bring people closer, who am I to argue."

Ashlee Ellegard Webster said,

"I personally know three non-believers that have given their life to YHWH over this very topic....huge huge blessing!"

Furthermore, I have received many responses such as this one from Will Reynolds:

"Rob Skiba, what you have been doing here really has me excited. I find myself digging into scripture with an excitement I haven't had in years. I too never thought I would be questioning the shape of our plane(t). Keep up the great work, it is opening my eyes and brings to mind: "Happy is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gains understanding" (Proverbs 3:13)"

And this one from Grace Pond:

"God has been ministering to me thru this FE thing on many deep levels as I go thru hell on earth in my life. It has been a healing part of my daily anguish. Don't judge what God can use to love on someone!"

- See more at: http://testingtheglobe.com/testimonies.html#sthash.hVfU244r.dpuf

Michael Ohman wrote:

"Talking of people getting saved, the flat earth discussion led my friend to salvation. He was the type of person that would sooner believe we were spawned by aliens and some genetic experiment to then evolve into what we are. But he said that as he was looking into flat earth, it kept pointing him back to the Scriptures and a Creator. So he decided to finally give in (after much resisting) and do a little research on the Bible and such things. He has now accepted Yahshuah as his Savior and is studying the word to 'deprogram' what he's picked up over the years.

And believe me, I'd tried before to show Yahshuah and Yahweh to him to no avail. Who would've thought that flat earth would be what it took to show him the truth? His conversion is nothing short of a miracle, only the Holy Spirit can 'change' a man's heart so drastically. When I found out he accepted Yeshuah, I was literally jumping up and down because I saw the miracle.

Keep your chin up Rob, even if the enemy is swinging. Remember that the enemy will always destroy the good and what is making a difference for Yahweh's Kingdom. If it's any help, it was due to yours and Douglas Hamp's work that I was brought back into fellowship with our savior Yeshuah last year. And it was the flat-earth topic that led one of my die-hard atheist friends to Yeshuah. You and your family will be in my prayers. May Yahweh bless you Rob."

Anthony Cruz wrote:

"I have a praise report. There is a friend I have been witnessing and praying for years for him. He grew up with sra, Out of all the subjects on realities we talk about, this flat earth subject has got him in the Word, and I see him coming closer to Jesus. Please keep him in prayer. Whatever God chooses to use to bring people closer, who am I to argue."

Ashlee Ellegard Webster said,

"I personally know three non-believers that have given their life to YHWH over this very topic....huge huge blessing!"

Furthermore, I have received many responses such as this one from Will Reynolds:

"Rob Skiba, what you have been doing here really has me excited. I find myself digging into scripture with an excitement I haven't had in years. I too never thought I would be questioning the shape of our plane(t). Keep up the great work, it is opening my eyes and brings to mind: "Happy is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gains understanding" (Proverbs 3:13)"

And this one from Grace Pond:

"God has been ministering to me thru this FE thing on many deep levels as I go thru hell on earth in my life. It has been a healing part of my daily anguish. Don't judge what God can use to love on someone!"

- See more at: http://testingtheglobe.com/testimonies.html#sthash.hVfU244r.dpuf

Sunday, 4 October 2015

Heliocentric Universe and Spiritual Bondage

By the governments of the world keeping us in a belief of a heliocentric universe (as opposed to a geocentric universe) keeps us in spiritual bondage. When we are kept in a spiritual bondage, it makes the people turn to their respective governments for all their daily needs instead of Yahweh, God.

The belief of a heliocentric universe (one where there are billions of suns and planets traveling through space destroys our belief in the Holy Bible, for, along with a belief that we, on planet earth, are just one of billions of planets that can have life on it, it makes the belief that God has no personal interest in us. In fact, it's very easy to not believe in God, because IF he exists, he would be remote – remote, like one billion light years away.

Whereas a belief in a geocentric universe (one where it's just heaven and earth), it brings the Bible to life, it means that heaven is literally right above us, as the Bible says; and that God has all his interest on us, as we are right below his feet.

In the Bible we are told that God's footstool is the earth. Now, how can earth be a footstool if we are:

a globe

spinning at 1,000mph

going around the sun at 67,000mph

going around the Milkway at 500,000mph

leaving the 'centre of the Big Bang' at the speed of light?

How can we be a 'foot stool' even metaphysically speaking? We can't, UNLESS we are stationary; this verse in the Bible conveys a stationary earth. When people realise this, they should take the Bible more seriously and ask themselves, “What else has the government and even the preachers in churches covered up?”

When you realise that we are the only ones out 'there' and that God is above the firmament of the earth, as the Bible says, that means we should read, obey and put into practice his Laws, Statues and Judgements as the Bible says.

Agnostics and the Flat Earth

If you have been to Eric Dubay’s chat forum, you’d see there that he as well as many others on his site DO NOT believe in evolution and DO believe in a Creator God, but they don’t believe in the God of the Bible.

While I do not believe in evolution (never did) and I do believe in a Creator God – I’m in agreement with many of the folks on this chat room site. HOWEVER, where I disagree is with the source of their God. I DO believe in a God of the Bible as well as Jesus Christ, I don’t understand why they don’t. It seems strange that they have come so close but believe in another God. It’s probably because they also believe in some false eastern philosophy as well as the flat earth. Or, they follow the liberal/media lie that everyone worships the same God.

My message to them, or to you, if you believe in some other god, is to use logic. Since we are in agreement that God created everything, that he created the earth and that there is only one inhabitable planet; and, that you agree (apparently) that there is a dome or a firmament, as the Bible says; and that there is heaven above this firmament, then why would not God give us a ‘manual,’ as it were, in how we should live?

If you admit that there is an intelligent and loving God, then why wouldn’t you think that he had at least someone on earth to be inspired to write a book on how to live life. We would all know that a person would be stupid if he made a game for people to play but didn’t write a ‘rule book’ but let everyone make up the rules as they went along. You wouldn’t think that would be smart, would you? So, why would you think less of God.

Others would ague and say, “The Hindus have their book; the Jews have their Talmud, why couldn’t it be a god of one of these religions?” Well, the answer is simple, if you read other religious books you will see a lot of errors in them. You’d also see that they don’t address the needs of the people; you’ll see that there is no prophecy in it that would be impossible for man to write – that it would have to come from or be inspired by God.

Flat Earthers, conspiracy theorists, as well as just about the rest of the world say they want peace, prosperity and health but they turn to man. They turn to government leaders, others, who are smarter know it’s not government leaders so they turn to their religions for the answer. Well, take the Hindus in India for example, if they were so smart, why is their such poverty, filth and superstition there? If their god has the answers, he certainly doesn’t know how to do it. In the case of the once Christian West, and I say, ‘ONCE’ the reason why we don’t have it is because true Bible teaching is NOT carried out in society. In fact, the Christians themselves don’t have the answers because they want to be ‘politically correct’ and you can’t be politically correct and tell the truth at the same time.

In the Bible there is the answer for all our problems – IF God’s laws were the laws of the land.

Only in the Bible does it describe the earth as accurately as it does, which is in opposition to what NASA, the astrophysics and the astronomers says. The other ‘holy books’ do not tell us of a dome or firmament over the earth, it does not say that the earth is stationary and fixed and other truths that, we, as Flat Earthers know to be the truth. What the Hindus do say in their ancient texts, for example, is that the earth is supported by an elephant. The ancient Christian Bible does NOT say that, but it does say that God hangs the earth on nothing.

With all this in mind, this is the reason why I have this blog named Christian Flat Earth Ministry. The other forums, and blogs on the flat earth want to keep it neutral. I say, how can you keep it neutral; we are talking about God’s creation so how can you keep God out of it? Unless, of course, you want to be ‘politically correct’ which is really scripturally and scientifically wrong.

I found out that talking about the flat earth brings a person to the realisation that there is a God more so then if you talked on just about any other subject. Don’t miss your opportunity to reach those who don’t know about God by just talking about the flat earth and ending it there. A person I know who is (was) agnostic was shown that the earth is flat. When he started to think about this he said to me, “That means there is a God.” I said, “Yes!”

In short, what many Flat Earthers should do is, after reading and watching videos about the flat earth, they should continue their studies and start reading the 1611 King James Bible.

Friday, 2 October 2015

God Created Earth on First Day

“The heliocentric theory, by putting the sun at the centre of the universe ... made man appear to be just one of a possible host of wanderers drifting through a cold sky. It seemed less likely that he was born to live gloriously and to attain paradise upon his death. Less likely, too, was it that he was the object of God‟s ministrations." -Morris Kline

“The Genesis creation story provides the first key to the Hebrew cosmology. The order of creation makes no sense from a conventional perspective but is perfectly logical from a flat-earth viewpoint. The earth was created on the first day, and it was „without form and void (Genesis 1:2).‟ On the second day, a vault the „firmament‟ of the King James version was created to divide the waters, some being above and some below the vault. Only on the fourth day were the sun, moon, and stars created, and they were placed „in‟ (not „above‟) the vault.” -Robert Schadewald, “The Flat Earth Bible”

Comment:

When you read the words of the Bible carefully about the celestial lights – they were created for the earth, then you'll understand that we are the only ones in the universe. Otherwise, why the creation of the earth first? Christians who believe that the “days” of God are like billions of years are wrong. If we were must one of billions, earth would not have been created first, the stars would not “serve” us but be suns for the billions of other planets. Thus, the universe, as we were taught to believe, does not have to exist in order for us to be here. In fact – the universe with is supposedly billions or trillions of starts and planets are not “out there,” but are simply points of light in the firmament. Though special points of light with a purpose of being, they are lights none-the-less.

The Flat Earth Bible

https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

Reprinted from The Bulletin of the Tychonian Society #44 (July 1987)

When I first became interested in the flat-earthers in the early 1970s, I was surprised to learn that flat-earthism in the English-speaking world is and always has been entirely based upon the Bible. I have since assembled and read an extensive collection of flat-earth literature. The Biblical arguments for flat-earthism that follow come mainly from my reading of flat-earth literature, augmented by my own reading of the Bible.

Except among Biblical inerrantists, it is generally agreed that the Bible describes an immovable earth. At the 1984 National Bible-Science Conference in Cleveland, geocentrist James N. Hanson told me there are hundreds of scriptures that suggest the earth is immovable. I suspect some must be a bit vague, but here are a few obvious texts:

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

Suffice to say that the earth envisioned by flat-earthers is as immovable as any geocentrist could desire. Most (perhaps all) scriptures commonly cited by geocentrists have also been cited by flat-earthers. The flat-earth view is geocentricity with further restrictions.

Like geocentrists, flat-earth advocates often give long lists of texts. Samuel Birley Rowbotham, founder of the modern flat-earth movement, cited 76 scriptures in the last chapter of his monumental second edition of Earth not a Globe. Apostle Anton Darms, assistant to the Reverend Wilbur Glenn Voliva, America's best known flat-earther, compiled 50 questions about the creation and the shape of the earth, bolstering his answers with up to 20 scriptures each. Rather than presenting an exhaustive compendium of flat-earth scriptures, I focus on those which seem to me the strongest. I also comment on some attempts to find the earth's sphericity in the Bible.

Scriptural quotes, unless otherwise noted, are from the New English Bible. Hebrew and Greek translations are from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. The Biblical cosmology is never explicitly stated, so it must be pieced together from scattered passages. The Bible is a composite work, so there is no a priori reason why the cosmology assumed by its various writers should be relatively consistent, but it is. The Bible is, from Genesis to Revelation, a flat-earth book.

This is hardly surprising. As neighbors, the ancient Hebrews had the Egyptians to the southwest and the Babylonians to the northeast. Both civilizations had flat-earth cosmologies. The Biblical cosmology closely parallels the Sumero-Babylonian cosmology, and it may also draw upon Egyptian cosmology.

The Babylonian universe was shaped like a modern domed stadium. The Babylonians considered the earth essentially flat, with a continental mass surrounded by ocean. The vault of the sky was a physical object resting upon the ocean's waters (and perhaps also upon pillars). Sweet (salt-free) waters below the Earth sometimes manifest themselves as springs. The Egyptian universe was also enclosed, but it was rectangular instead of round. Indeed, it was shaped much like an old-fashioned steamer trunk. (The Egyptians pictured the goddess Nut stretched across the sky as the enclosing dome.) What was the Hebrew view of the universe?

The Order of Creation

The Genesis creation story provides the first key to the Hebrew cosmology. The order of creation makes no sense from a conventional perspective but is perfectly logical from a flat-earth viewpoint. The earth was created on the first day, and it was “without form and void (Genesis 1:2).” On the second day, a vault the “firmament” of the King James version was created to divide the waters, some being above and some below the vault. Only on the fourth day were the sun, moon, and stars created, and they were placed “in” (not “above”) the vault.

The Vault of Heaven

The vault of heaven is a crucial concept. The word “firmament” appears in the King James version of the Old Testament 17 times, and in each case it is translated from the Hebrew word raqiya, which meant the visible vault of the sky. The word raqiya comes from riqqua, meaning “beaten out.” In ancient times, brass objects were either cast in the form required or beaten into shape on an anvil. A good craftsman could beat a lump of cast brass into a thin bowl. Thus, Elihu asks Job, “Can you beat out [raqa] the vault of the skies, as he does, hard as a mirror of cast metal (Job 37:18)?”

Elihu's question shows that the Hebrews considered the vault of heaven a solid, physical object. Such a large dome would be a tremendous feat of engineering. The Hebrews (and supposedly Yahweh Himself) considered it exactly that, and this point is hammered home by five scriptures:

Job 9:8, “...who by himself spread out the heavens [shamayim]...”

Psalm 19:1, “The heavens [shamayim] tell out the glory of God, the vault of heaven [raqiya] reveals his handiwork.”

Psalm 102:25, “...the heavens [shamayim] were thy handiwork.”

Isaiah 45:12, “I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens [shamayim] and caused all their host to shine...”

Isaiah 48:13, “...with my right hand I formed the expanse of the sky [shamayim]...”

If these verses are about a mere illusion of a vault, they are surely much ado about nothing. Shamayim comes from shameh, a root meaning to be lofty. It literally means the sky. Other passages complete the picture of the sky as a lofty, physical dome. God “sits throned on the vaulted roof of earth [chuwg], whose inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the skies [shamayim] like a curtain, he spreads them out like a tent to live in...[Isaiah 40:22].” Chuwg literally means “circle” or “encompassed.” By extension, it can mean roundness, as in a rounded dome or vault. Job 22:14 says God “walks to and fro on the vault of heaven [chuwg].” In both verses, the use of chuwg implies a physical object, on which one can sit and walk. Likewise, the context in both cases requires elevation. In Isaiah, the elevation causes the people below to look small as grasshoppers. In Job, God's eyes must penetrate the clouds to view the doings of humans below. Elevation is also implied by Job 22:12: “Surely God is at the zenith of the heavens [shamayim] and looks down on all the stars, high as they are.”

This picture of the cosmos is reinforced by Ezekiel's vision. The Hebrew word raqiya appears five times in Ezekiel, four times in Ezekiel 1:22-26 and once in Ezekiel 10:1. In each case the context requires a literal vault or dome. The vault appears above the “living creatures” and glitters “like a sheet of ice.” Above the vault is a throne of sapphire (or lapis lazuli). Seated on the throne is “a form in human likeness,” which is radiant and “like the appearance of the glory of the Lord.” In short, Ezekiel saw a vision of God sitting throned on the vault of heaven, as described in Isaiah 40:22.

To continue to read, kindly go to the link at the top of this article.

Flat Earth FAQ

Flat Earth FAQ Video

This video will explain much about the flat earth...

Flat Earth Answers Biblical Questions

By Richard Snowden

Knowing the Flat Earth Truth Answers a Christian's Questions

I had been a Christian all my life and it was just recently that I learned about the flat earth. Before I learned about the geocentric model I had some questions in the back of my mind. These unanswered questions did not shake my faith in Christ but they were questions anyhow.

Some of the questions I had were as follows:

“God must be busy in some other part of the universe to know what is going on here.”

“I wonder if the other intelligent life on other planets are free from sin?”

“If there are other civilizations that have sin, how can their sins be washed away unless God has more than one son?”

“Since we are told that there was no death until there was sin by Adam, does that mean there was no death on other planets?”

“If there was death on other planets, then are they in some other time frame to explain that?”

“Are we part Alien, as claimed by people like David Icke? If so, where does that leave us and the promises in the Bible that we are God's Children?”

“Would we still be Yahweh, God's Children if we are DNA re-arrangement by some Alien race?”

“In John 3:16, it says that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes on him shall not die but have ever-lasting life. Then, how would others be saved on other planets? It means that everyone else is without sin – if the Bible is true. Or, Yahwheh, God has more than one Son, so wouldn't this be a conflict of statement?”

“We are told that Heaven is above us. So, is this meant figuratively or are we to believe this literally?”

Of course, there are other questions that could have been asked but I never thought of it as I didn't take the other Bible verses literally (which we should have in light of the geocentric model of the earth). One such verse I didn't think of is that “everyone would see Christ coming on the clouds.” Verses like that and without knowing about the flat earth facts, I had to make this verse fit my belief. This is what we all do, instead of thinking “outside of the box,” we do some mental gymnastics to make everything fit. Of course, there are those who simply lose faith, and this is sad.

With everyone seeing Christ, I, personally just accepted this at face value and not tried to figure out the mechanics of it. I believe that once you have this attitude, you are better off. Your getting to Heaven does not depend on you knowing all the answers in the Bible, you just have to know the most important one, which is, “No one comes to God except through Jesus Christ,” plain and simple.

As you can see, I had some answered questions. Though this did not weaken my faith in God's holy word, I just had some unanswered questions, which are now answered now that I have stuided the flat earth information. I hope you do, too.

Once you know about the flat earth, the true nature of what stars and planets are, and that there is a firmament or dome over the earth, then many of the above questions are answered. For example, that we on earth are the only people “out there,” (with the exception of Angels of the Heavenly Host), you'll know that there are no other planets much less other planets with ETs on them. So, this answers questions about sin, Christ is the only Son of God, and that there are no other people to be saved.

When we are told in the Bible that “heaven is above” us, it has much more meaning than if this is a universe with a billions light years of space all around and that we live on a globe. For example, where would “above” be? Would it be above Germany 500 million light years, or would it be above Australia, which is “down under,” and 1 billion light years away? Where would heaven be? And if God is there, He certainly would not a personal God being so far away.

Where would “above” be, going from the top of the planet, from the equator, or from “down under”? And, how many light years “above” would that be, 1,000 or 1,565,000 light years? And, what galaxy would that be behind? And, what constellation would that be behind? And, what planet would it be on or be behind? This is not “above”!

Now, if Heaven is, say, 3,000 miles above and with us being on a flat earth, this “above” is literally the same for everyone; then the words of God has much more meaning. Of course, when the Bible was written the ancient world believed in the flat earth and that we were the only ones here and not aliens who could visit us and do us harm.

Flat earth facts fits in well with the Bible.

Flat Earth and God

Some Flat Earthers Believe in God But Not the Bible

There are many people who know about the flat earth truth but are not Christians. In fact, some of them are hostel to Christians; they don’t want to hear others bring Christianity into the flat earth debate, yet, they have the gall to criticize Christians. I won’t mention any names but you’ll probably come across them in your research on the flat earth.

Well, I thought it was about time to bring Christianity into the picture and how it RELATES to the flat earth. I can’t do it on their forums, as I would be kicked off; I can’t do it on their websites as they don’t have a way for you to respond to their readers. Thus, the only way I can fight this ignorance and hostility is by having my own blog and forum. That is why I created www.flatearthandthebible.blogspot.com

Flat earthers have no right to criticize Christians in their discussion with the flat earth. They know they are hiding the truth – it’s not done out of ignorance on their part. The reason why I can say that is, anyone who researches the flat earth and have read the early books and pamphlets know that the early flat earthers (late 19th and early 20th Century) know that these people were Christians; they often had Bible quotes telling you about the true nature of the earth, sun and moon.

The Bible has everything to do with the flat earth, as it was the Creator who created the earth so, don’t you think He would have something to say about His creation? Of course He would but some flat earthers would like you to ignore it.

Then, you have some flat earthers who do quote about the verses that says, for example, that the earth is on foundations and it is fixed. This, of course, would plainly tell you that the earth does NOT rotate nor does it move through space. Yet, they don’t want to have a talk on this subject any further – just quoting some verses is the most they will do.

Now, if these non-Christian flat eathers are sincere, they would want to find out what else the Bible says about how to live our lives. But they don’t want to go there as they will have to make more changes in their beliefs and the world around them.

(You can find some of the verses of what the Bible says about the earth within this blog, so I won’t go into it here.)

As you study the flat earth, you’ll find that this subject is not the only one that the government/education/media has covered up – there are many other things that has been concealed from you, too. That is why you’ll see on flat earth sites another category of, what is called, Conspiracies, as that is what is happening.

Learning about the flat earth and the true nature of the Sun, Moon and stars, you’ll see why it’s so important that the world leaders don’t want you to know the truth. After all, what reason would the so-called elite have in the public knowing that the earth is flat and we are the only “planet” out there? You are probably asking yourself – and rightly so – what difference would it make to them that we are told that truth? “After all,” you may say, “they are already making all the money off of us that they want; they are already controlling what little freedom we have, and telling us that the earth is flat instead of round would not change anything else.”

This is a good question and one that needs to be answered. The reason that the anti-Christs, or whatever you want to call them, is that they don’t want you to know that there is one God and that God is of the Bible; they don’t want people to start reading the rest of the Bible and find answers to their problems.

For centuries now, those in power have been successful in keeping us from knowing the truth about all of our earthly problems such as: health, relationship to one another, judiciary, economy, military, etc. After all if the people don’t know the truth, the Jews and others who work with them will be able to control us by keeping us poor, sick and ignorant. This is where they make their money. The answers to these problems are in the Bible, so, centuries ago, they have kept us from really reading and studying the Bible and CONTROLING what we read. The descendants of the ancient Edomites and Khazars have used various methods with success to do this. One example is that for centuries the Catholics did not allow their people to own and read the Bible. Now, that succeeded until Martin Luther came around and the invention of the printing press.

After people became Protestants, where they were allowed and encouraged to read the Bible, other methods of control had to be implemented. Then, in the 19th Century came Darwin and his push for evolution. About the same time was the Jew Karl Marx and his book on Communism called Das Kapital (The Capital).

The Jews, who had infiltrated both the Catholic and Protestant churches changed the meaning of the Bible by changing what the priests and pastors said from the pulpits.

Midway through the 20th Century changes came in the form of new versions of the Bible, where words were changed and whole verses taken out. Such corrupted versions are: New International Bible, The Living Bible, New American Version, The New King James Version, etc. Then, you had the big move of, what is known as “Christian Zionists” (an oxymoron if I ever heard of one) – those who favour every little thing that Israel is doing in the Middle East. These “Christians” support the bandit state of Israel with their money, time, votes and moral support. Many young men gladly go off to war in the Middle East to fight for the Jews in Israel.

After one method of control wears off another method has to be invented and implemented. So, NASA had been given the task to do this, along with the twisted science of what is called modern day astronomy and astrophysics.

Those who really control the destiny of America have figured out many years ago that if they can get the people to believe that there are billions of galaxies with trillions of planets out there; and that we are just one of billions of planets that harbours intelligent life; that there are many Extra-Terrestrials out there visiting earth, it would make any Christian feel insignificant. And for those who are not Christian, they have no reason to become one – after all, they think, “What importance are we to God when He has billions of others planets to visit.”

Then, if that wasn’t enough, people like Jordan Maxwell and David Icke say Aliens have created us, they have changed our DNA. This, of course, takes God completely out of the equation or at least delegates Him to a position of no direct involvement in the affairs of men.

In short, all of this keeps us from finding the answers in the Bible.

You see, philosophy can keep people ignorant for only so long before someone wakes up and learns the truth and starts telling others. Such control of the people through words include reading other Bible versions instead of the 1611 King James version. The philosophy of Communism is easy to see through for anyone that has half a brain. But with the technology age, more and more people look towards physical things they can point to, see and feel; this is the space agency.

With the advent of the American and Russian space programs, people can see and say, “Look at that rocket going to the moon!” or “We are sending satellites to other planets – look at the pictures that are brought back to us!” or “Look at those beautiful galaxies that the Hubble Telescope took!”

These things are more “real” to the average person; certainly more real than some old book about “Evolution of the Species.”

So, you will still look towards the astronomers and scientists who work in NASA, Boeing and Martin-Marietta for your reality instead of the Holy Bible.

But when people wake up and find out such things that earth is flat and stationary (as the Bible says); that the Sun moves and not the earth (as the Bible says); that there is a firmament (dome) above (as the Bible says), and that Heaven is above us (as the Bible says), then knowing that we truly are the centre of God’s creation, perhaps people will treat each other better. And by treating each other better, we will follow the Laws, Statues and Judgements of God Almighty. When that day comes it will be the end of this old Babylonian System – Amen.

We Are Without Excuse

Flat Earth: We Are Without Excuse

Earth Not a Globe Review Nos. 1-3

Click Here for another Issue of Earth Not a Globe Review

The inspired Psalmist says that “ The heavens declare of glory of ( and the firmament sheweth his handywork ”; therefore, whatever some professed Christians affirm to the contrary, the subject of Creation is connected with right views of God, his worship, and his glory. But if we would have a right conception of God, and his glory, we must see to it that we have a right conception of his works in Creation. How, for instance, do we obtain an insight into the character of any great man, whether he be a poet, politician, sculptor, general, or king ? It is not by his acts, or his works? But suppose these acts, or works, are misrepresented to us, or defaced by someone, should we not have , false and distorted views respecting the author, artist, or the maker of those things? Assuredly. And so it comes to pass in respect to the construction of the world, false views of the universe have led men into a misconception respecting the Character of God, and even alas ! in many cases, to a denial of the very existence of such a personal Being.

Let us, then, endeavour to come back to first principles. The world exists, and must have come from somewhere. It is “ unthinkable ” to say it came by chance, or any “ fortuitous concourse of atoms.” Its wonderful variety, the general co-relation and adaptability of its various parts, and the exact and never failing motions of all the heavenly bodies, prove, to any well-balanced and unprejudiced mind, that some grand and controlling Intelligence directs and rules over all. As the apostle Paul declares, “ The invisible things of Him from the creation to the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead : so that they are without excuse.” Rom. 1:20.

A grand truth lies in this statement of the apostle. Paul was no fool. It is allowed on all sides, alike by friend and foe, Sceptic and Christian, M. Renan and the Archbishop of Canterbury, that no one man has had more influence in forming Christianity, the history of which has for eighteen centuries been making the history of the civilized world, than the apostle Paul. His name will be had in honour when the names of the adversaries of the truth will have sunk into merited and everlasting oblivion. And this great man agrees with the Psalmist in teaching that the Creation, as set forth in the Bible, and as found in what some call “ Nature,” sets forth unmistakably the grand truth that God is. Now, this is a fundamental verity, and the foundation of all true faith, G o d i s . And “ he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.” Now, this faith is, on the one hand, neither an unreasoning credulity, nor, on the other hand, is it a bigoted (/belief. It is based on an intelligent and reasonable understanding of the things that are seen above and around us.

The Book of Nature is open to all men; but it must be read and studied without prejudice and without philosophical bias. We must come to it like little children, with the honest desire to know the truth, and not attempt to read into it our own, nor any one else’s, plausible or implausible hypotheses. If we do this patiently and persistently, we shall be “ rewarded ” : the grand and ineffaceable truth will dawn upon us that God is.

We shall see His glory in the bright and blazing sun as he goes forth majestically, like a giant, to run his daily course. We shall own His Power and Godhead when the moon, queen of the night, rises in quiet and stately splendour, to reflect her silver radiance in every rippling stream. And we shall confess His wisdom and unfailing skill when, at night, we gaze up into the firmament and behold ten thousand glittering gems, shining in matchless beauty, and shedding upon the earth their silent influences, as they nightly perform their appointed revolutions.

“ The firmament sheweth His handiwork.’’ That vast and incomparable structure which spans the heavens, and covers the earth with its capacious dome, divides the waters which are “ above” the firmament from the waters which are “ under ” the firmament. And when we realize something of the tremendous size of this tent-like covering, spanning with one mighty arch across the whole of the outstretched earth ; when we considered its weight, its strength, its stability, and the avowed purpose for which it was made by the Creator, we can unhesitatingly and devoutly again exclaim with the Psalmist, “The firmament sheweth His handiwork.”

No wonder such a “ work ” occupied the whole of one day, the third, in the “ great and marvellous ” work of the six days Creation. Job, one of the finest, and certainly one of the most ancient, of true philosophers, when comparing the works of God with the puny works of man, asks : “ Hast thou with Him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten lo o k in g glass ? ” Job 37 ; 18. It is, perhaps, this mirror-like quality which the firmament possesses that makes unbelieving “ scientists ” think that they can, with their glasses, peer into what they call “ space,” which they affirm to be “ boundless.” As well might a child, gazing upon the bosom of a glassy lake, affirm that it had no bottom, and that the sky and clouds, reflected from its placid surface, were slumbering in the unfathomed depths below, and not above, its waters.

The idea of unlimited “space,” filled with an infinity of revolving worlds or globes, is not only a bewildering idea, unfounded on fact, but it directly tends to remove the Creator, or rather the idea of a Creator, far, and farther, away from this earthly plane of ours. It necessarily and logically leads to Atheism; and too often, alas! it practically leads men there. The idea of Heaven as a place, the abode of The Eternal, becomes to the logical and thinking Newtonian a 7nyth and God, if he acknowledge such a personal Being at all, becomes farther and farther removed from the scene of all earthly operations. Whereas the Saviour of the World, who “ came down from Heaven,” to do his Father’s will, taught His disciples to believe that Heaven was not very far off; that it was directly and always “ above ” u s ; that God was concerned in the work of His hands; and that as “our Father,” He was near enough to hear the prayers of all those who call upon him in sincerity and truth. This is assuring : this is comforting. God cares for the world ; and He will punish those who afflict mankind with their selfishness, their greed, their falsehoods, and their oppressions. Yea, God has “ so loved the world”—not the “ globe,” as some misguided Christians have lately printed and perverted this sublime text with a ridiculous “ globe” stamped on the paper—God “ so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” This, we say, is comforting. It is assuring. But, on the astronomical hypothesis, the world is like an uncared-for orphan, or a desolate wanderer: God is removed too far from us to be any practical use; and the idea of Heaven is so vague, that such a place, if it exist at all, may be anywhere or nowhere; “all round the globe;” or spirited away from us altogether, “beyond the bounds of time and space.” Thus the Christian’s hope is undermined, and his faith is eaten away at the very core by this insidious and so-called “ scientific” worm. This is most calamitous ; yet even some of our “ spiritual guides ” are either so false to their professions, or are so deceived themselves, that they cry out, “ It does not matter what shape the earth is ; we don’t care whether it be round or flat, square or oblong, so long as ’—yes, so long as they get a good “ living,” and hold a respectable position in society ? Is this it ? Such a confession really means, when put into plain language, We do not care whether the Bible be true or false, in its record of Creation, so long as our interests or our hope of “ Salvation ” is assured. But “ woe ” is pronounced against such easy going shepherds of Israel. “ Woe” to them who are leaving their flocks to become a prey to the devouring wolves of “ Science, ” “ falsely so called,” as the great apostle intimates. Let us be on our guard. There are honourable exceptions to such false shepherds and teachers, and others are being raised up to warn us. We have quoted some of their noble testimonies. Let us give heed to these needful warnings. God has never left Himself without witnesses to His Truth whether in Nature or in Revelation. We may shew this, if the Lord permit, more fully another time as regards Creation truth. In conclusion, we would call the attention of all our readers to the seasonable warning given us by the Apostle Paul, where he says;— ‘‘ Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ,” Col. 2 : 8. And again, Let us “ prove all things ; and hold fast that which is good.”

Why Don’t Christians Embrace the Bible’s Flat Earth Teachings?

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm …”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable …”

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Isaiah 45:18: “…who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast…”

The Three-Story Universe

From N. F. Gier, God, Reason, and the Evangelicals

(University Press of America, 1987), chapter 13.

Author’s Note: Full bibliographical information for references will be supplied at a later date.

Until then please check the full bibliography of the hard copy of God, Reason, and the Evangelicals.

A COMMON COSMOLOGY OF THE ANCIENT WORLD

Many evangelicals believe in “detailed inerrancy,” which means that the Bible, in the words of Francis Schaeffer, is “without error in all that it affirms” and contains “propositional true truth where it touches the cosmos and history.”(1) This in all probability was not the position of historical Christianity and many evangelicals themselves reject this position.

The inerrantists cannot decide which “science” to use to prove that the Bible is without error about cosmological matters. Following the lead of Charles Hodge and B. B. Warfield, writers for the Moody Bible Institute contend that the Bible is completely compatible with current theories about the evolution of the universe over billions of years. (2) On the other hand, we have “fiat creationists,” like those from the Institute for Creation Research, who reject cosmic evolution and maintain that the universe is less than 10,000 years old.

Throwing intelligent light on the question are the evangelical writers of the New Bible Dictionary. An author warns us that the Genesis account “must not be confused or identified with any scientific theory of origins. The purpose of the biblical doctrine, in contrast to that of scientific investigation, is ethical and religious….The whole is poetic and does not yield to close scientific correlations….Genesis neither affirms nor denies the theory of evolution, or any theory for that matter.”(3) Evangelical J. J. Davis concurs: “Evangelicals have generally come to adopt the position that the Genesis accounts of creation are primarily concerned with the meaning and purpose of God’s creative work and not with precise scientific details of how it was accomplished….We look to the science of genetics to answer the scientific question of when human life begins and to the Bible for revelational answers concerning the value and purpose of human life.”(4) Of course these evangelicals are correct in disclaiming any scientific foundation for the cosmology of the Old Testament.

I believe, however, that there is more than just poetry in the biblical creation account. In what follows I argue that we should take the Hebrew cosmology as a prescientific attempt to understand the universe. Parallel accounts in other ancient mythologies will be the principal evidence I offer. One of the first problems we have is that there is no word in Hebrew for the Greek kosmos. Kosmos was first used by Pythagoras, who is said to be the first Greek to conceive of the universe as a rational, unified whole. Such a notion is crucial to the scientific idea that things operate according to law-like regularity. For the Hebrews the universe is not a kosmos, but a loose aggregate held together and directed by God’s will.(5) If God’s will is free–this is an assumption threatened in some evangelical doctrines of God–then the results of such a will are not predictable events. This is why the biblical idea of creation can never be called “scientific,” and why “scientific creationism” will always be a contradiction in terms.

1. THE FIRMAMENT AS THE DOME OF HEAVEN

The most striking feature of the Old Testament world is the “firmament,” a solid dome which separates “the waters from the waters” (Gen. 1:6). The Hebrew word translated in the Latin Vulgate as firmamentum is raqia’ whose verb form means “to spread, stamp or beat out.” The material beaten out is not directly specified, but both biblical and extrabiblical evidence suggests that it is metal. A verb form of raqia’ is used in both of these passages: “And gold leaf was hammered out…” (Ex. 39:3); and “beaten silver is brought from Tarshish” (Jer. l0:9). There are indeed figurative uses of this term. A firmament is part of the first vision of Ezekiel (1:22,26), and the editors of the evangelical Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament cite this as evidence that the Hebrews did not believe in a literal sky-dome. It is clear, however, that Ezekiel’s throne chariot is the cosmos in miniature, and the use of raqia’ most likely refers to a solid canopy (it shines “like crystal”) than to a limited space.(6)

The idea of the dome or vault of heaven is found in many Old Testament books, e.g., “God founds his vault upon the earth…” (Amos 9:6). The Hebrew word translated as “vault” is ‘aguddah whose verb form means to “bind, fit, or construct.” Commenting on this verse, Richard S. Cripps states that “here it seems that the ‘heavens’ are ‘bound’ or fitted into a solid vault, the ends of which are upon the earth.” We have seen that raqia’ and ‘aguddah, whose referent is obviously the same, mean something very different from the empty spatial expanse that some evangelicals suggest.

In the Anchor Bible translation of Psalm 77:18, Mitchell Dahood has found yet another reference to the dome of heaven, which has been obscured by previous translators. The RSV translates galgal as “whirlwind,” but Dahood argues that galgal is closely related to the Hebrew gullath (bowl) and gulgolet (skull), which definitely gives the idea of “something domed or vaulted.” In addition, Dahood points out that “the parallelism with tebel, ‘earth,’ and ‘eres, ‘netherworld,’ suggests that the psalmist is portraying the tripartite division of the universe–heaven, earth, and underworld.”(8)

Some evangelicals claim that the Bible contains at least three references to a spherical earth (Is. 40:22; Job 22:14; Prov. 8:27). But this is just wishful thinking and an obvious imposition of modern cosmology on the Hebrew world-view. The Hebrew word hug used here cannot be translated as sphere (which is rendered by a different word), but must again be interpreted as a solid vault overarching the earth. Therefore I follow the Anchor Bible translation of Is. 40:22: “God sits upon the dome of the earth.” Job 22:14 says that God “walks on the vault (hug) of heaven,” again suggesting something solid. Hug can also refer to the circular perimeter of the sky-dome: “He drew a circle (hug) on the face of the deep…and made firm the skies above” (Prov. 8:27-28).

If some respond by saying that all of this is just poetry, I believe that they are incorrect for at least three reasons. There are many poetic images of the sky and heaven, but the common thread which connects them is the idea of a solid dome. In Isaiah 34 God is threatening the nations, and at verse four he will make “the skies roll up like a scroll” (and presumably causing a deluge like Noah’s). Job is put in his place by reference to God’s mighty deeds: “Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?” (37:18). At Isaiah 40:22 the real “dome of the earth” (AB) is followed by the poetic “he stretches out the heavens like a veil; he spreads them like a tent to dwell in.” One of the psalmists also uses this simile: “God has stretched out the heavens like a tent” (Ps. 104:2).

The second and most conclusive reason for taking the Hebrew solid heaven literally is that such a view was all over the ancient world of the time. We agree with evangelical Joseph Dillow that we must use the doctrine of “sharable implications,” which means that we cannot impute to authors knowledge or experience which they could not possibly have had. Dillow is wise enough to reject violations of this principle like Harold Lindsell’s claim that Job 38:35 anticipates wireless telegraphy; but he still believes, and this proves troublesome, that the “Bible does provide a perfectly sound basis for understanding not only religious truth but also physical processes.”(9) Contrary to C.S. Lewis’ claim (see epigraph), the Hebrew world-view was not a uniquely chosen one; and as the Hebrews were only religious, not scientific innovators, we can assume that they borrowed much from their neighbors.

The ancient Egyptians thought that the sky was a roof supported by pillars. For the Sumerians tin was the metal of heaven, so we can safely assume that their metal sky-vault was made out of this material.(10) Dillow cites this fact without realizing what this must mean for the Hebrew view and his principle of sharable implications. In Homer the sky is a metal hemisphere covering a round, flat, disc-like earth, surrounded by water. The Odyssey and the Illiad speak alternatively of a bronze or iron sky-vault.(11) For the ancient Greeks Anaximenes and Empedocles, the stars are implanted in a crystalline sky-dome. At Genesis 1:17 the stars are “set in” (as if implanted) in the firmament.

In Celtic mythology the father god’s skull is the dome of heaven, which echoes the Aryan idea that the sky evolved from the head of the cosmic man Purusha and therein dwelled the earliest Vedic gods (Rig-veda 10.90.14,16). The fear of Chicken Little comes from this ancient cosmology: when Alexander asked the Celtic leaders what they feared most, they answered that they were afraid that the sky would fall on their heads. In Manichean myths the sky was made from the skins of defeated demons, echoing themes from the Babylonian Enuma Elish.(12) In Zoroastrianism one finds a spherical earth, but one still enclosed in a celestial shell of first stone then shiny metal.(13) In the Finnish Kalevala the sky is made of the finest steel; and the ancient Tibetans not only had a spherical earth surrounded by an iron heaven, but also knew, amazingly enough, that the earth’s diameter was about 7,000 miles.(14)

The final evidence I draw from rabbinic accounts. In Nachmanides’ commentary on the Torah, he quotes from the ancient rabbis: “The heavens were in a fluid form on the first day, and on the second day they solidified.” Another ancient rabbi said: “Let the firmament become like a plate, just as you say in Ex. 39:3.” Nachmanides himself describes the firmament as “an extended substance congealed water separating” the waters from the waters.(15) Apart from the congealed water thesis, a modern Jewish Bible scholar agrees with this interpretation: “raqia’ suggests a firm vault or dome over the earth. According to ancient belief, this vault which held the stars, provided the boundary beyond which the Divine dwelt.”(16) As far as I can ascertain, the idea of a spherical earth did not enter Jewish thought until the Middle Ages. Simeon ben Zemah Duran (1361-1444), for example, states: “This round world suspended in space and has nothing to rest on except the breath of Torah study from the mouths of students–just as a man may keep something up in the air by the blowing of his breath.”(17)

1. THE PILLARS OF HEAVEN AND EARTH

If we disengage ourselves from our own world-view, we can appreciate the internal logic of the Hebrew cosmology. If we are threatened by watery chaos from all sides, then a solid sky would be needed to hold back these ominous seas. If the sky is a solid dome, then it will need pillars to support it. Furthermore, if the earth is a flat disc floating on “the deep,” then it would make sense for it to have some support to hold it in place. One finds the idea of physical supports for heaven in most ancient mythology. One Vedic poet writes of a god “by whom the awesome sky and earth were made firm, by whom the dome of the sky was propped up”; and Varuna “pillared both the worlds apart as the unborn supported heaven” (Rig-veda 10.121.5; 8.41.10). The cosmology of the ancient Arabians was a little more advanced. Here we find a solid sky-dome which Allah holds up by an act of will (Surah 2.22). That God “raised up the heavens without pillars” (Surah 13.2) reveals at least two assumptions: (1) that there was something solid to raise up; and (2) earlier views used actual supports and not Allah’s direct will.

It is not surprising then that one finds biblical references to the “pillars” or “foundations” of the heaven and earth. In Job we find that “the pillars of heaven tremble, are astounded at God’s rebuke” (26:11). In 2 Samuel we also find that God’s anger makes “the foundations of the heavens tremble” (22:8). God’s fury also affects the pillars of the earth: “Who shakes the earth out of its place, and its pillars tremble?” (Job 9:6); and “the foundations of the world were laid bare at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils” (Ps. 18:15). There seems to be a little confusion about where the pillars of heaven are located. Generally, in the Bible and other ancient literatures, distant mountains were the most likely candidates. But in one passage at least we find that Yahweh has “laid the beams of his heavenly chambers on the waters” (Ps. 104:3), i.e., the watery chaos surrounding the flat disc of the earth.

In the Old Testament God is portrayed as a cosmic architect. Isaiah asks: “Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand and marked off the heavens with a span?” (40:12). In Proverbs Yahweh “drew a circle on the face of the deep…and marked out the foundations of the earth…” (8:27-29). God challenges Job with the famous question: “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?…Who determined its measurements…or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone…” (38:4)? Continuing the same theme, the psalmists ask: “Who placed the earth upon its foundations lest it should ever quake?” (Ps. 104:5, AB); and observe that “when the earth totters…it is God who will steady its pillars” (Ps. 75:3, AB). Finally, in 1 Sam. 2:8 we find that “the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s and on them he has set the world.”

Joseph Dillow responds to these passages generally by saying that these are figures of speech or phenomenological language. Specifically, he points out that the Hebrew word used may indicate pillars which support nothing, but this certainly does not preclude the “pillars of heaven” from doing so. Dillow weakens his argument considerably when he admits that “the ‘pillars of the earth’ are simply mountains, even though long ago the Babylonians, and perhaps, the Hebrews, considered them as supports for a metallic sky dome.”(18) Dillow believes that Moses wrote the Pentateuch and he gives no credible argument why he should have viewed the cosmos differently than his pagan contemporaries. As we have shown above, the intellectual environment of the priestly writers would have still favored a solid heaven in need of support. Why should the Hebrews, who had no special expertise in ancient science and who borrowed heavily in other areas, have had a view different from other ancient peoples’? As we shall see in a later section, Dillow claims that Moses accepted the ancient idea of the “ocean of heaven.” It would appear certain that he would also have accepted a sky-dome to support such a body of water. The logic of such a cosmology is expressed well by a Vedic poet: “Water is up there beyond the sky; the sky supports it” (Aitareya Upanishad I.2).

THE WATERS ABOVE AND BELOW

In her new translation of the Rig-veda, Wendy O’Flaherty says that the ancient Hindus believed that “the earth was spread upon the cosmic waters” and that these primeval oceans “surrounded heaven and earth, separating the dwelling-place of men and gods….”(19) After the sky fell in on the Celts, the next event they feared was that the seas would come rushing in from all directions.(20) In the Babylonian creation epic Enuma Elish, the sky is made from the body of Tiamat, the goddess of watery chaos. The victorious god Marduk splits “her like a shellfish into two parts: half of her he set up and ceiled it as sky, pulled down the bar and posted guards. He bade them to allow not her waters to escape.”

In Genesis 1:1 we find the linguistic equivalent of Tiamat in the Hebrew word tehom (“the deep”), and the threat of watery chaos is ever present in the Old Testament. Evangelical F. F. Bruce agrees that “tehom is probably cognate with Tiamat,” and Clark Pinnock admits that Yahweh also “quite plainly…fought with a sea monster” and that the model of the battle is a Babylonian one.(22) The psalmists describe it in graphic terms: “By thy power thou didst cleave the sea-monster in two, and broke the dragon’s heads above the waters; thou didst crush the many-headed Leviathan, and threw him to the sharks for food” (Ps. 74:13-14 NEB; cf. Job 3:8; Isa. 27:1).

The firmament separates the waters from the waters, so that there is water above the heavens (Ps. l48:4) and water below the earth. The Second Commandment makes this clear: “You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth…”(Deut. 5:8; cf. Ex. 20:4; Is. 51:6). The lower tier of this three-story universe is identified as water in other passages: “God spread out the earth upon the waters” (Ps. 136:6); and “he has founded it upon the seas and established it upon the rivers” (Ps. 24:2). If the waters below the earth are simply springs,(23) then one would have a hard time making sense of the prohibition of making images of the mostly microscopic creatures found in such waters. The biblical authors are definitely thinking of the great fishes and monsters of “the deep” itself. The fertility goddesses of the land and the seas were Yahweh’s principal rivals.

Some evangelicals claim that the author of Job believed that the earth was suspended in empty space: “The shades below tremble, the waters and their inhabitants. Sheol is naked before God. He stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon nothing” (26:5-7). The first thing that can be said here is that the context is not one of God’s creation (which comes next at vv. l0-l4 following the cosmology above), but one of God’s threat of destruction. Second, none of the ancients, except for possibly the Greek atomists, had any notion of empty space. The Hebrew words for “void” and “nothingness” have parallel uses in many Old Testament passages and generally refer to a watery chaos (Gen. 1:1; Jer. 4:23; Is. 40:17, 23). Therefore we must conclude, as does Marvin H. Pope, that Job does not have the Pythagorean notion of the earth suspended in space.(24) Oceans, not empty space, surround the Hebrew world.

Although it sounds odd at first, the rabbinic idea that the sky-dome was made of congealed water makes eminent sense in terms of creation out of watery chaos. This doctrine, and not creatio ex nihilo, is the prima facie implication of Genesis 1:1; and the scholarly consensus is that this initial impression is indeed correct.(25) Hebrews 11:3–“that which is seen was made out of things which do not appear”–has been used for centuries as the main scriptural support for creation out of nothing. G. W. Buchanan has now shown that this was very tenuous indeed: “The author’s concern for the unseen was not primarily that which was invisible or intangible, but that which was future, that which had not yet happened. It was a concept of time rather than of substance or essence.”(26) One passage is never mentioned in arguments for creatio ex nihilo: “Ages ago I Sophia was set up…before the beginning of the earth. When there were no depths (tehom) I was brought forth…”(Prov. 8:23-24). Here there seems to be a clean break with previous creation models: watery chaos is not a coeternal substance along with Yahweh and Sophia, his co-craftsperson.

Creatio ex nihilo represents yet another parting of the ways between process and evangelical views. The process theologians of course reject God as absolute power and support Whitehead’s own version of creation out of chaos. In contrast to all traditional views, the process God does not create the universe at one point in time nor does this God create it continuously throughout all time; rather, God prepares “initial aims” for an essentially self-creating universe. This brilliant and unorthodox separation of “creativity” from God gives sufficient independence to the world so that certain devastating implications of creatio ex nihilo are avoided. Specifically, I have argued elsewhere that such a doctrine of creation leads to the unavoidable imputation of all evil to God. See www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/305/3dp.htm. Sec. E.

There is yet another problem with creatio ex nihilo. With regard to theological language, its proponents have only the via negativa, for as William T. Jones has phrased it, “God’s creativity and man’s have nothing in common but the name.”(27) In contrast some process theologians follow the via eminentia, so that the term “creativity” is used univocally for both God and creatures. Charles Hartshorne expresses this crucial aspect of a process doctrine of creation well: “Creativity, if real at all, must be universal, not limited to God alone, and it must be self-creativity as well as creative influencing of others.”(28)

1. DILLOW’S VAPOR CANOPY THEORY

In his book The Waters Above: Earth’s Pre-Flood Vapor Canopy, Joseph C. Dillow discusses at great length the possibility that the biblical view presented in the preceding section (with some exceptions of course) was indeed a fact before Noah’s Flood. Although Dillow rejects the hermeneutical excesses of the detailed inerrantists, he still remains squarely within this view. In his book Dillow takes great pains to point out the errors of apologists who have interpreted the heavenly oceans as a figure of speech or as a way of portraying water-filled clouds. Dillow argues persuasively that the Bible makes a clear distinction between clouds and the waters of heaven and concludes that the “cloud” interpretation is “clearly impossible.” Dillow also firmly establishes that the celestial waters are above the sky and not just in the atmosphere. Dillow believes, without good justification, that Moses corrects much of the cosmology he inherited from others, but “one of the things he does not correct is the notion of a literal liquid ocean placed above the atmosphere.”(29)

Dillow elaborates: “In view of the principle of sharable implications… the only other possible meaning of the text would be of a literal liquid ocean. It is clear that the Hebrews were aware of the literal liquid ocean concept from the surrounding myths why not also a metallic sky-dome?, and that they were aware of clouds as a source of water.”31 He does concede, however, that the vapor canopy he proposes was beyond Hebrew experience and knowledge.

We have neither the space nor expertise to consider Dillow’s long detailed, scientific defense of the vapor canopy theory; instead, we shall propose some criticisms from the standpoint of biblical hermeneutics and comparative religion. One point, however, in the area of science should be made. Without a solid skydome, Dillow must resort to divine intervention in at least two ways: God must support the waters of heaven from Creation to Noah and must also change them from their original liquid state to the hypothesized vapor. Dillow’s use of divine miracles does not make it likely that his vapor canopy theory will be seriously considered in scientific circles. Dillow himself admits that an “entirely different set of natural laws would have had to have been in operation for such a state to have been maintained.”(32) Dillow and other creationists, in one fell swoop, have destroyed the very possibility of genuine science.

Since the alleged celestial ocean was drained during the Deluge, one would not expect to find reference to it after this time. But Psalm 148:4 clearly refers to “you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens”; Job speaks of the “waterskins of the heavens” (38:13); and when God “utters his voice, there is a tumult of waters in the heavens” (Jer. 10:13). It should be emphasized that God “established them the heavenly waters forever and ever” (Ps. 148:5). Dillow cannot accept the standard conservative interpretation of clouds, so he must embrace the celestial ocean here too. He cautions us not to take “forever” too strictly, because from the biblical perspective, God can always change what he has created: “So the fact that these waters are described as lasting forever does not necessarily mean that the temporary water of heaven theory cannot be meant.”(33) Needless to say, I do not find Dillow convincing, and I still maintain that Psalm 148:4 and the other passages cited above must be interpreted in terms of a permanent reservoir of water.

Dillow’s response to Psalm 148 is somewhat desperate and in his anxiety he reveals his true hermeneutical colors. He maintains that if he reads verse four as referring to the celestial ocean, he must somehow admit that “not only did the Hebrews believe in a celestial ocean prior to the Flood, but they also embraced the world view of the metallic dome and present existence of the celestial sea held by the Canaanites. The latter view contradicts the inerrancy of Scripture….”(34) It is clear that the grammatical-historical investigation of the Bible cannot maintain its integrity with such an a priori assumption of inerrancy. The editors of the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament also embrace a priori inerrancy in their rejection of “gods” as the translation for ‘elohim in Exodus 22:8-9. They state: “This is unacceptable from the point of view of Scripture’s attestation to being God’s Word and its clear doctrine of the existence of only one God.”(35) Dillow and other evangelicals not only make creation “science” impossible but Bible science as well. Some evangelicals prefer to stick to their ideology of inerrancy rather than honor scholarly and scientific methods.

One of the predicted (or “postdicted”) results of the vapor canopy theory is that there would have been more protection from age-inducing cosmic rays and a uniform and stable earthly climate. Dillow contends that this would mean that humans would have lived longer, that there would have been no rain, wind, or storms and that moisture would have been produced by mists and dew. Dillow argues that this type of life and climate is precisely what the Bible and other ancient literatures describe. He quotes from the Persian story of Yima who lived for 900 years and at a time when there were neither cold nor hot winds. He also cites accounts of the Golden Age in Greek and Hindu literature. These halcyon days disappeared after the Flood when the protective vapor layer was removed.

If we turn to the stories of the ancient Sumerians, who are definitely antediluvian, we find that Dillow’s theory is disconfirmed. For example, Enki, a Sumerian water-god of wisdom, is said to have caused life-giving rain to fall and he put the storm-god Ishkur in charge of it.(36)There is also Ninurta, god of the stormy south wind. We can also read of P’an Ku, the primal man of Chinese mythology, whose sweat became earthly rain. As to the extended longevity of the prediluvian patriarchs, ancient historians are well aware of hyperbolic chronologies in Indian literature (especially Jainism) and Near Eastern records. Sumerian kings, for example, had reigns from 18,600 to 65,000 years. E. A. Speiser believes that this mythical chronology was appropriated and partially demythologized by the priestly writers: “The P source, then, did not invent the abnormal life-spans of the Sethite list; if anything, they have been drastically reduced.”(37)

1. CELESTIAL CHAMBERS AND THE HEAVEN OF HEAVENS

While it is true that the Hebrews had a rough understanding of the circulation of water vapor and the source of rain in the clouds (Job 36:27, 28), they also conceived of mechanisms in heaven whereby God could directly induce great atmospheric catastrophes. Obviously the clouds themselves could not have held enough water for the Great Flood, so “all the foundations of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened” (Gen. 7:11; cf. Mal. 3:10). This is also further proof that the earth was surrounded by watery chaos. The Old Testament talks about divine “chambers” (heder) in heaven and this notion seems to have been borrowed from Canaanite mythology. Marvin Pope has discovered a direct parallel to the Ugaritic God ‘El who “answers from the seven chambers,” usually through the media of the seven winds.(38)

Significantly, we find that Yahweh “brings forth the wind from his storehouses” (Ps. 135:7); and “from the chamber comes the tempest, from the scatter-winds the cold” (Job 37:9, AB). From Amos we learn that God “builds his upper chambers in the heavens” (9:6), and the psalmists speak of God storing “his upper chambers” with water so that he can water the mountains (Ps. 104:3, 13; cf. Ps. 33:7). Job gives us the most detailed account of God’s chambers: “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail, which I have reserved for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war?” (38:22). We must not forget that “Yahweh is a warrior” (Ex. 15:3) and it is he, for example, who caused the violent storm which destroyed the Canaanite army of Sisera (Jdgs. 5). In the noncanonical Ecclesiasticus we discover that Yahweh has more than storms in his chambers: “In his storehouses, kept for proper time, are fire, famine, disease” (39:29). Dillow argues convincingly that Yahweh’s storehouses of rain are not just clouds or ocean basins; rather, they most definitely have a celestial location.(39)

In the diagram at the head of the chapter, the area above the “ocean of heaven” is labeled the “heaven of fire.” I have not been able to verify this, and it seems that it must be labeled “heaven of heavens” instead. Again various levels of heaven are not unique to the Hebrews for we can read that the Vedic seer conceived of at least “three superior realms of heaven” (Rig-veda 8.41.9). One psalmist clearly distinguishes between the two levels: “You highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens” (Ps. l48:4). This area is exclusively Yahweh’s domain: “The heaven of heavens belongs to Yahweh…” (Ps. 115:16, AB); “To the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens…” (Deut. l0:l4); and “heaven and highest heaven cannot contain thee” (1 Kgs. 8:27). These passages have led to endless speculation about the various levels of heaven. Creationist Henry D. Morris claims that there are three heavens: (1) atmospheric heaven (Jer. 4:25); (2) sidereal heaven (Is. 13:10); (3) and the heaven of God’s throne (Heb. 9:24).(40) The heaven of heavens mentioned above is probably not Morris’ third heaven, because it was created (Ps. 148:4) and it seems that God does not dwell there (1 Kgs. 8:27). Commentators will probably never be able to sort out many of these obscure passages.

In closing this chapter, something must be said about the process of “demythologizing.” This word, made popular by Rudolph Bultmann, has become a dirty word among conservative Christians. It is clear, however, that demythologizing happened with the writing of the Old Testament, and it is occurring at another level within evangelical hermeneutics itself. Recall that James Barr’s theory is that fundamentalists take the Bible literally only when it fits the doctrine of inerrancy. They do not hesitate to naturalize biblical events when they must be harmonized with historical or scientific facts. When Dillow claims, and rightly so, that Moses wrote of a sovereign Yahweh completely in charge of a depersonalized nature, he is conceding that the Hebrew writers, as with our example of the Sumerian chronologies, were historicizing myth. But Dillow and other evangelicals are also demythologizers in disguise, for they want us to believe that a heavenly ocean and the flood it caused are facts and not myths. This is demythologizing at its worst and the evangelical rationalists are its champions.

Endnotes

Full bibliographical information for references will be supplied at a later date. Until then please check the full bibliography of the hard copy of God, Reason, and the Evangelicals.

1.Francis Schaeffer, No Final Conflict, p. 48.

2.Peter W. Stone and Robert C. Newman, Science Speaks: Scientific Proof of the Accuracy of Prophecy and the Bible. For the same view, see Newman and Herman J. Eckles, Genesis One and the Origin of the Earth.

3.New Bible Dictionary, pp. 269/245, 271/246, 272/247.

4.John Jefferson Davis, “When Does Personhood Begin?,” p. 41.

5.The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, vol. 1, p. 702.

6.The Interpreter’s Bible, vol. 6, p. 731.

7.Richard S. Cripps, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Book of Amos, p. 262.

8.Dahood, The Anchor Psalms, vol. 2., p. 232.

9.Joseph C. Dillow, The Waters Above, pp. 27 ff.

10.S. N. Kramer, The Sumerians, p. 113, quoted in ibid., p. 127.

11.G. S. Kirk and J. E. Raven, The Presocratic Philosophers, p. 10. Plato preserves this cosmology with references to the “vault of heaven” and the “heaven above the heaven” (Phaedrus 247).

12.S. N. Kramer, Mythologies of the Ancient World, p. 341.

13.Ibid., p. 339. See also R. C. Zaehner, The Teachings of the Magi, pp. 33, 39. The earliest accounts, which were of course pre-Iron Age, described the sky “as an empty shell, perfectly round, made of stone passing beneath the earth as well as arching above it” (Mary Boyce, A History of Zoroastrianism, vol. 1, p. 132).

14.The Tibetan Book of the Dead, pp. 63, 65.

15.Nachmanides (Raban), Commentary on the Torah, vol. 1, pp. 33, 36.

16.W. Gunther Plaut, The Torah: A Modern Commentary, p. 18.

17.Excerpted in The Living Talmud, p. 47.

18.Dillow, op. cit., p. 39.

19.The Rig-veda (trans. O’Flaherty), pp. 32, 29.

20.Charles Squire, Celtic Myth and Legend, p. 174.

21.Ancient Near Eastern Texts, p. 67, 2nd col.

22.Bruce, “Our God and Saviour,” p. 54; Pinnock, The Scriptural Principle, p. 123.

23.See Steven A. Austin, “Springs in the Ocean.”

24.Marvin H. Pope, The Anchor Job (3rd ed.), p. 165.

25.W. R. Lane, “The Initiation of Creation,” pp. 63-73. “Perhaps the belief in ‘creation out of nothing’…is too sophisticated for Isreal’s faith” (Bernhard W. Anderson, “The Earth is the Lord’s,” p. 184.) Anderson cites the best defense of creatio ex nihilo: Walther Eichrodt’s “In the Beginning: A Contribution to the Interpretation of the First Word of the Bible.”

26.G. W. Buchanan, The Anchor Hebrews, p. 184. Neidhardt’s claim that the author of Hebrews anticipated unseen atomic particles is unfortunately typical speculation among many evangelicals (quoted in Henry, vol. 1, p. 169).

27.William T. Jones, The Medieval Mind, p. 87. Despite Robert C. Neville’s brilliant defense of creatio ex nihilo, he must still admit that “God’s creative power having no medium apart from its product” is a “very peculiar kind of power” (God the Creator, p. 114).

28.Quoted in Douglas Browning, “The Development of Process Theology,” p. xi.

29.Dillow, op. cit., pp. 49-50.

30.Ibid., p. 22.

31.Ibid., p. 51.

32.Ibid., p. 57.

33.Ibid., p. 108.

34.Ibid., p. 106.

35.Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, vol. 1, p. 45. Pinnock is the rare evangelical who admits to the existence of Old Testament henotheism (see The Scriptural Principle, p. 123). See references for henotheism on p. 103 above.

36.Kramer, Mythologies of the Ancient World, pp. 100, 105.

37.E. A. Speiser, The Anchor Genesis, p. 42.

38.Pope, op. cit., p. 281.

39.Dillow, op. cit., p. 61.

40.Henry D. Morris, The Genesis Record, p. 58.

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